I am Fiery
Why we weep for atheits and the innocent dead.
HumblehumanityThank you for the fantastic news about the pro-abortion stance that Obama has taken.I can only hope he continues and that more abortions are available for more women everywhere.Who are these "atheits" that you weep for? Or did you mean atheists? You don't have to weap because you wish you were one of them. Go to Youtube and watch all of ThunderfOOt's creationist videos. You will be one of us before #12 and by #27 you will be celebrating your humanity and loving your life.JESUS IS A CUNT!!
I weep for all "atheists". You believe life is all you get, and then you don't give the babies a chance. If a woman wants to take the only life her child will get, then I can't stop her. It is, however, wrong to use my tax money to kill it. That is why I weep.
Do you also weep for the victims of incest who, because of people like you, kept the constant reminder of one of the most horrific incidents of their entire lives?And even if the 15 year old gives up the baby raped into her body by her own father, the stretch marks and permanent changes brought about on her body by an unWANTED pregnancy are permanent. Forever there as a constant reminder of a horrifying event you will **never** have to live through.How smug you must feel looking down on the lowly sinners seeking to terminate the precious spark of life within them.But you don't see the drudgery and the slavery inflicted upon unwilling mothers forced into parenthood by the likes of you. The dreams that are shattered. The future possibilities that now have no chance of blooming. But praise Jesus we've brought another unwanted child into the world.An abortion eliminates the possibility of a life while SAVING the life of the woman who does NOT wish to be a mother.How can you possibly deny a woman a future unburdened by the ball and chain of an unwanted tumour growing inside of her?
Yes, I do weep for the incest victim. But killing the baby isn't going to erase what happened. Would she forget about the incident if she didn't conceive a child? You seem to insinuate that all abortions are the result of dear old daddy raping his 15 year old. Are you privy to some statistics that the rest of us are unaware of?Roe doesn't feel like her life was saved. Would you even accept the premise that some women regret abortion? When, if at all, is abortion unacceptable?
1- a foetus, before it is viable outside the womb, is only the POSSIBILITY of a life. Calling it a baby doesn't make it one.2- Why do women choose abortion? Because they judge themselves unable to be a mother: whether that is a lack of experience, lack of desire, physical inability, financial inability, or emotional inability.Why would YOU want someone who is any of those to raise a child?And why should a woman be FORCED to bear a child and then give it up for adoption?3- An abortion guarantees that you will not have a baby, not that you won't regret that decision. The regret of one woman or even thousands of women does NOT mean that every woman regrets the decision.What about the women who regret NOT getting an abortion? Who realize that they were not ready to be mothers and her life would have been infinitely better had she aborted the blob of cells before it forever changed her life?Do you believe, HumbleHumanity, that it is allowable for a woman to have an abortion because of rape or incest?
Point 1 - I agree. Calling it a foetus doesn't not make it either. Your admission is that it is possibly human. It could be, and it could not be. You seem to be defining life's starting point as when the blob breaths. I refuse to grant you that assumption. If you want to debate when life begins, fine. We were not discussing that originally. Point 2 Why do they choose? I would love to debate the topic. I actually began the comment thread by displaying disgust in using federal taxes, mine and yours, for abortion. If Obama wanted to use tax dollars to teach everyone that the God of the Bible is true, would you not object?Point 3 I disagree with that premise as well. I do not accept abortion in any instance. Why? I believe that your wrong about the blob, potential human. I believe it is a human. As a country, we try to save everything from a tree to Saddam Hussein. But babies, we could care less about them. Thank you for the discussion. I don't pretend to think you will change your mind. Nor will you change mine. However, I have enjoyed spouting my view. Thank you for the forum.
HumbleHumanity, in mentally reviewing what you've written, it occurred to me that I hadn't responded to this quote, "You believe life is all you get, and then you don't give the babies a chance."As an atheist, I do believe that this life is all we get. Which is why abortion is such an important option. An unwanted pregnancy can be critically, permanently, even fatally damaging to a woman's life. This is a person who *right now* (one hopes) thinks, works, loves, creates, lives, learns, laughs, sings, dreams, desires, hopes. If the woman looks at her life and says, my life will be permanently damaged if I have a baby right now, why should she continue the pregnancy? Why is her life forever ruined because she hosts a fertilized egg?The lump in her tummy is a seed. A POTENTIAL human being. Why should it's potential outweigh her actual life?Why should something that isn't YET human have more of a right to life than that which already IS human?
? I don't know why is has to be one or the other? Are there cases where it is one or the other? Maybe. I think people like me who are prolife need to adopt more kids. That won't solve the problem, just some of them.I wish we could seperate situations into groups. Certainly there are women who make bad choices and end up pregnant. Why would her life be "ruined"? She made a bad choice. There are women who are raped (I don't know the statistics) and abort. Would carrying her child and giving it up ruin her? Doubtful. Countless situations. I am not convinced the mother's life is ruined in any of them.
Not every pregnancy is a choice. In the obvious case of rape, but what of failed birth control? She didn't make a mistake, her "protection" failed. A woman's body is permanently changed by pregnancy. Why is that forced upon someone when there is an alternative?A woman's life is permanently altered by having a child. Why is that forced upon her when there is another option?A woman's life AND the child's life can be permanently damaged by having a relationship forced upon each other that the one wasn't ready for and the other should NEVER have experienced. Why put either one of them in such an untenable position when it could have been different?
You can trot out all sorts of special situations. But you still haven't answered the ultimate question. 1. When does the blog get to be a human?2. Why does one human get to rank higher in importance than the other?
1. Legally- The blob is human when it is born and becomes no longer a tumour but a separate entity complete with its own set of human rights.Morally- The blob is human in the third trimester *when* it becomes capable of surviving outside the womb.2. Until it is viable, it is not human and is not entitled to have rights.
An abortion eliminates the possibility of a life while SAVING the life of the woman who does NOT wish to be a mother.Hey Fiery! It just so happens that I put up a post on this topic last night. I think you'll love the title. :-)
OK lets get slightly scientific about the matter...."Unlike men, who produce new sperm daily throughout most of their lifetime, women are born with all their eggs in one — okay, two baskets (ovaries). To be more precise, a woman is born with about one to two million immature eggs, or follicles, in her ovaries.Throughout her life, the vast majority of follicles will die through a process known as atresia. Atresia begins at birth and continues throughout the course of the woman's reproductive life. When a woman reaches puberty and starts to menstruate, only about 400,000 follicles remain. With each menstrual cycle, a thousand follicles are lost and only one lucky little follicle will actually mature into an ovum (egg), which is released into the fallopian tube, kicking off ovulation. That means that of the one to two million follicles, only about 400 will ever mature.Relatively little or no follicles remain at menopause, which usually begins when a woman is between 48-55 years of age. The remaining follicles are unlikely to mature and become viable eggs because of the hormonal changes that come along with menopause."http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1639.htmlStands to reason, (now there's a word worth considering) that if women are born with all their eggs, and there are so many of them - one to two million - its pretty darn unlikely that a woman's body is going to be able to convert all those little blobs into live humans! I think Religionists, and others, focus on so called 'hot issues' like abortion because they have been fooled into thinking its a moral issue, when in actual fact its in reality only an issue for each individual woman. If women were properly educated about their bodies, and if it had not been made into a moral issue, and if people had not been coerced, forced and basically tricked into being emotional about the issue, there would be no issue!
I am still waiting for the science about fertilized blobs. Your observation of the blob was no doubt facinating. We were, however, talking about a fertilized blob. Where is the science for that?This is a moral issue. (see fiery's earlier entry). Morality deals with right and wrong, with behavior. You can't take the morality out of it, no one can.
Actually it is a legal issue (see your own earlier comment).If you don't want your sperm part of an aborted zygote than don't fertilize a woman or don't allow your breeding partner to abort your blob. No moral quandary for you.The problem is that you want to legislate YOUR morality and force EVERY woman to make the choice YOU have made.I think you've spent too much time looking at pictures of bloody babies and not enough time in schools and in women's shelters with human beings struggling to live a life they can't cope with.It's really wonderful that you care so much for the blob. Now try some compassion for the woman. Dig a little deeper and a little deeper still.Nothing?Then it is you that I weep for. You and the innocent lives you wish to ruin.
It's really wonderful that you care so much for the blob.It never ceases to boggle my mind how so many people are more concerned with the fate of a fertilized egg or foetus in another woman's body and not about the woman herself or the kind of life the child will have if it is forced to be born.
Laws are moral. They tell us what is right and wrong. All that garbage about "not legislating morality" is the biggest farce since government was invented.I want to legislate morality, not just mine, and give the unborn their God given, and supposedly constitutionally guaranteed, right to life, liberty and the purfuit of happyneff. The "Right" to kill an American wasn't even legislated. A rogue group of black clad ideologues declared it "legal". Tommy - For the sake of my sanity and your easily boggled mind, when, during the gestation period, is it too late to relieve the foetus of his forced birth? 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Can the legs and arms be flailing about? When does the blob, or as fiery so elloquently calls them bloody babies (I didn't know she was English), get compassion?
When I said you were looking at too many pictures of bloody babies. I didn't mean that in the form of a british swear word.I meant you were visiting too many pro-life websites and looking at too many pictures of mangled corpses of aborted blobs.Thank you very kindly for ignoring MY answers to your questions that you now turn on Tommy.If the baby is delivered naturally, then it has a right to life.Before that, the mother has the right to abort.I think ethically it's a little iffy if the baby is viable, she waited too long TO ME! But the law is different than what makes ME squeamish.And as for the law being different than morality. Jesus Christ, Humble Humanity.Do you want the Jewish people to set up the laws of the country demanding we all eat kosher and do no work on Saturday because they find it morally reprehensible? How about the prohibition on eating pork by the Muslims. What if they want all the women to wear hajib. Are you ok with that?Your drawing the line at conception and saying THIS is where life begins is in the same boat as Kosher pickles and forbidden ham sandwiches.It's MORALITY not LEGALITY.Learn the difference.
humblehumanity you're among the disillusioned many who are making this a fake moral issue. The idea that each egg, fertilized or not, is a 'real' person that 'deserves a chance' and that you could 'weep for' is such a load of twisted logic. You feel SO much for this little cluster of cells, but you feel NOTHING for the woman, what kind of doubly twisted logic by humble humanity is that?Women are born with far more eggs than will ever be needed in one lifetime. The reality is, these are only possibilities, not people! Its up to the individual woman to decide about her own situation, i.e. whether she, in her current situation is capable of carrying the baby to full term, and then nurturing it to adulthood. All you other people who seek to take away what should be basic women's rights... SHUT UP!!
"An unwanted pregnancy can be critically, permanently, even fatally damaging to a woman's life. This is a person who *right now* (one hopes) thinks, works, loves, creates, lives, learns, laughs, sings, dreams, desires, hopes. If the woman looks at her life and says, my life will be permanently damaged if I have a baby right now, why should she continue the pregnancy? Why is her life forever ruined because she hosts a fertilized egg?"Wouldn't you expect a rational person, in the face of such dire consequences to make sure that she doesn't EVER create such a situation in the first place? I do know the statistics. 1 in 17,000 rapes results in pregnancy. Two of our adopted children are the result of rape. The thought that they might have been ripped, limb from limb is heart wrenching. I am strongly pro choice - but the choice comes before conception, not after. If you want some good information, check out abort73.com
"Wouldn't you expect a rational person, in the face of such dire consequences to make sure that she doesn't EVER create such a situation in the first place?" Makarios, rational people often find themselves in irrational situations. For example, young girl, 17 years old, knows nothing at all about birth control, finds herself in lust with her boyfriend, one night they go too far...then she's pregnant. Her family are deeply religious, she cant turn to them. Her and her boyfriend decide that having the baby wont be good for both of them at that time of their life, they secretly find a doctor who will abort the baby....multiply this by thousands. She is a human being with normal human desires and a body that is ready to be pregnant, she hasn't been taught how to be careful with her body, it was forbidden territory...where's the logic in that?Another example, young woman 25 years old, unmarried, works as a waitress. Falls in love with a bastard who treats her like dirt, she forgets (for whatever reason) to take her birth control pill and bingo she's pregnant. She sits and thinks about life with a baby and the bastard, and decides its not such a good idea. She finds a doctor who will abort the baby...multiply this by thousands of variations. Another example, married woman with 4 children, which she loves dearly finds herself pregnant again, husband has just left her for a younger version and doesn't know she's pregnant, and even if he did wouldn't give up the new version. She knows she wont cope with another baby, finds a doctor who will abort the baby...multiply this by thousands...and on and on. I know there are many different reasons why women might abort a baby, I don't judge them, I know they had to make that decision themselves, I know they lived with it, and lived on and probably didn't make that mistake again...If all women were properly educated about their bodies, if portions of society didn't totally frown upon abortion, if facilities were available to easily get good practical advice, and if other organizations were easily accessed to assist them if they did go ahead and have the baby, and that would be assistance and backup for about 20 years then most would have the baby, and we're obviously talking about thousands and thousands of women and babies... As it stands, you are basically on your own with the situation. Society doesn't really collectively care, if you go ahead and have the baby, no one is going to help you, if you go ahead and abort the baby, no one is going to help you either only judge you and call you a murderer...its an awful situation with no real answers. "I do know the statistics. 1 in 17,000 rapes results in pregnancy."I think pregnancy from rape is just another example of the above. "Two of our adopted children are the result of rape. The thought that they might have been ripped, limb from limb is heart wrenching."I think you should be commended for adopting children, but I also think in the process you have projected your thoughts and feelings about your adopted children onto every other woman who decided to abort their almost baby.
The thought that they might have been ripped, limb from limb is heart wrenching.Most abortions are in the first trimester of pregnancy. There is no ripping of limbs going on. It is precisely this appeal to emotion that clouds your judgment on this issue.A woman's uterus is not a public domain.
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