Friday, August 29, 2008

Read Before You Die

We had a fundy stop by and throw down about 2 weeks ago. *snerk* AJ felt compelled ... led??? stop by with a link and an offer.

"I'm just a passing Christian who feels the need to crash your atheist party and say that I think that God exists, and I think that you guys should rethink.

I'm sure you've had guys preach to you before, but if you'd like to discuss the ultimate question; and others like it then please drop me a line.

Oh, and check out this ... it's awesome.

Peace out,


Strange how he didn't leave his email address, it's not available on his profile OR on his blog. I guess he wants you to leave a comment with your address on his blog, or maybe here if he comes back. I wonder if he has answers we haven't considered or heard before?

But he did leave a web address...So I went.

Problems with the site
1- the music. W__T__F???
2- the scroll options- there aren't any. You have to "turn the page" by dragging it to the left and fitting the page of this "e-book" closely enough to almost perfectly line up and then clicking it into place BEFORE you can see the next page. Ya gotta want it yo!
3- the fluff bullshit nature of the text itself. (yeah, that was the really shocking part)... see below.

Oh- and if you go, which I don't personally recommend, remember to turn the sound OFF as soon as possible. Whatever that is, it's crap.

Let me ask you a question:
(Oh please do! But make it a good one.)

Are you living in this world to get rich or die trying?
(Oi, that wasn't a good one. False alternative. Also, if I say no, I close the book.)

Some people say they're scared to die
(few people want to die, fewer still want it to hurt)

Some people say they're ready to die

(fair enough)

But almost everyone wants to go to heaven.
(define heaven- sounds like the most boring place imaginable)

Whether they're hoping there's reallly a "Heaven for a gansta" or a "hip-hop heaven," all people want to get to heaven.
(not necessarily. Life is given meaning by the challenges we face, the risks we take, the possibility of failure. No biblical description of heaven has any appeal to me.)

They want heaven cause they hear it's a "better place" or a place where 'dreams come true". Truth is, heaven is better, matter of fact there's no pain, no suffering, and no death there. There's even no need for church buildings because people don't need to be reminded to kick it with God there. Everyone is there with HIM forever.
(How about chances of failure? Or do you succeed at everything you try. Any desires? If you eat chocolate for every meal, you'll get sick of it in 2 days. What is the "purpose" of living in heaven. Eternal church services. GACK!)

So...How do we get to heaven?
(Wait... you didn't tell me what heaven IS only what it ISN'T.)

God requires perfection.
So how do you measure up?
Are you perfect?
Me neither.
Matter of fact-nobody is.
That's why the bible says:
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:23

(God demands perfection? That's rich. His one publication and he couldn't even get that right without contradicting himself. And helllooooo? Noah's Ark. The Flood. That was all about god hitting reboot because HIS creation didn't go the way he wanted it to.)

Sin is anything that offends God or doesn't meet God's perfect standard. That standard is given to us in the Law of God. can you honestly say that you have never lied, stolen or had a dirty or evil thought?
(If there is no god to offend, then thought crime is a victimless crime. Social lies are between me and the person lied to or about and fraud is between me, the injured party and the government that protects people from that.)
Those are what you call sins.

(No, those are what YOU call sins. Legally, the only one is possibly the lying.)
And you know what? We are all guilty of breaking God's Laws.
(He sort of designed it that way didn't he? Made it impossible to not piss him off. Then offers you the solution for what ails HIM.)
We are all sinners. So, we got a problem.
(you've got a problem that *you* created. Problem. Reaction. Solution.)
Then how can peeps like us, who are not perfect, get into heaven? (What is with the pseudo-hip language?????)

See God has to punish sin.
(hold the phone. What is the source of sin? Biblically speaking? God planted a tree and said don't eat it. No experience with limits, never before having been told no. And what is the punishment for eating one apple. for a single instance of disobiedience. Billions of souls damned to eternal torture for a crime they didn't commit. Oh yeah, that's fair.)
The Bible tells us that "The wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23) Which means our sentence sure isn't heaven.

So what can we do about this? The bad news is WE can't do anything. There are no plea bargains and we can't be the judge for another chance. When we mess with laws they don't ccare about how nice we are or how sorry we are.

(So it's not a matter of regretting our "sins"????)
If you jump out of a plane the law of gravity don't care how bad you want to get back into the plane, you're gonna fall.
(the law of gravity isn't arbitrary. Decreeing that THOUGHTS are a sin, is arbitrary.)
God's laws are no different. They are perfect and there is no getting around them.

What's worse is that God tells us in James 2:10 that "Whoever breaks one law is guilty of breaking them all." So whether a person steals one car or 20, he's guilty of stealing. Whether you tell a little white lie or rob a bank, you are gujilty of sinning against a perfect God.

Hold up, isn't God Loving Forgiving? (not so you'd notice)


While we were still sinners. Christ died for us.
(So a god, chooses to die, and come back to life after 3 days in hell, and spend the rest of eternity in heaven. And that's a sufficient "sacrifice" for an entire species???)

So, what does trust in Jesus mean?
Trusting in Jesus means more than getting "let off the hook" from your sins. It means depending on Jesus alone as the only one who has paid the debt you owe God. Faith in Christ means trusting in Him as your only way to Heaven.

(still not convinced it's a place I want to be.)

If you're like me
(I'm not. Not at all. I had to kill the sound on this website about 3 seconds into the opener. Good fucking GOD what is that racket???)
you have put trust in a lot of things in life- like money to get the bills paid and put food on the table.

(funny thing about money. You go to a job, they give you a pay check, you buy goods and services with it. You can feel it jingling in your pocket. Take it out and count it. Very tangible. Very real.)
You trust that the check will come on the first and fifteenth.
(and have legal recourse if it does not.)
You trust in your family or your crew to be there when you need'em.
(a trust they've earned after years of knowing them)

The reason we trust in these things is cause we see them as valuable enough to put trust in.
(fundies say "what"? I "trust" in those things because there is ample evidence for the trust. It is not placed blindly on a wish that what I want it to be is so.)

What do you trust in? Picture it here

But, everybody knows that money may fail us when we need it.Sometimes the checks don't come when we need 'em and we've all had family and friends dip out on us when we needed them.
(dip out on us???)
If you trust in things that can fail, why wouldn't you trust in Christ who has never failed?
(Never failed? To answer a prayer? To provide proof of his existence? To protect the innocent? To prevent evil done in his name? To recommend the ending of social evils that were in his power to prevent? To change the hearts of the clergy that abuse children? To have ANY influence over the corrupt individuals running his Church?)

We trust in doctors because of the medicine they can provide for our bodies.
(And the decades they've spent studying and learning.)
How much more should we trust in the one who created the body?...even yours. (yeah right. according to what evidence??)

Blank but for some graffiti

People try to tell a lie that there are things in this life more valuable than God. Following that lie keeps us from trusting in Christ alone to make us right in God's sight.
(*sigh* Bored now. There isn't a god. There is no evidence outside of an individual's belief and faith that there has to be a god, 'look trees' or 'the law of gravity'. But that's it.)



(Evidently they got bored too.)

Once you see Christ as he really is, you can STOP looking for what you can do to get right with God and Trust In Jesus.
(*snerk* Nobody has "seen" christ. Which reveals what he really is.... nothing.)


See, no matter how hard we try, we won't be accepted by God by trying to live right and going to church every Sunday.
(Good thing there, church bores the shit out of me.)

We can't buy his acceptance by paying tithes. We can't talk our way into heaven with excuses or explanations.
(Excellent, I can't bloody afford the 10% gate fee anyway.

We can only trust Jesus as the only way to personnally know God.
(blah blah blah)

The Bible says in Epehsians 2:8 "It is by grace that you have been saved through faith and not of yourselves- it is the gift of god."

Page 24
So what's keeping you from trusting Jesus?
(The fact that I don't believe in imaginary friends? That the concept of god is anathema to life. That the "sacrifice" of jesus is laughable.



Page 27
If you believe in Jesus Christ, you have all the riches you will ever need- in fact, you've received the greatest gift you could ever ask for: eternal life. BUt, Jesus didn't just come to give us life after death, He wants us to start living right now.

For more biblically-solid culturally-relevant resources and materials visit blah blah blah.

Links unavailable because I couldn't be bothered going back for them.


Anonymous said...

blah blah indeed Fiery.

I went there and didn't bother going further than the introductory pages.

I started to read your stuff above, but fuck me, they do go on don't they?

How much of this stuff do they need to keep spitting out to convince themselves?

If there is a god, a higher power, or some sort of 'life force', then I am sure it is something so far removed from what we are that we would be incapable of imagining what it is or how it really works, so the more people try to define or explain anything the more deluded they appear to me.

The more precise their definition of God, what he stands for, what he wants of us etc., the more I know they are really fucked up, especially when they get to the bits where God is going to hate you and condemn you for not believing in him.

This sounds so much like what a human would say to win a stupid argument; "if you don't agree with me or give me what i want, then I won't love/like you anymore", that it seems blatantly obvious that any arguments for god based on this are just shit made up by humans.

Virtually all argument for religion relies on this sort of stupid idea at some point.

Half rabbit said...

2 days of chocolate at every meal......... is that a dare? :D

I'd already been though that site a few years ago. Shame it hasn't got anymore interesting.

Makarios said...

Fiery - Congrats, You sound like everything most people imagine atheists to be.

Fiery said...

You mean I sound intelligent, rational, sharp witted, probably bordering on sarcastic, full of fun, reasoned instead of gullible? Bored by idiots. Definitely not one of the sheeple. And not taken in on someone else's say-so.

Thank you kindly!

Makarios, mirror of god, and like your god, your words are open to interpretation.

Never thought I'd see you on my blog, though I am familiar with your

Makarios said...

Now, why in the world would you ever think that I wouldn't come and visit a nice girl like you?

Fiery said...

Because you're you and I'm me. :)

Anonymous said...

crikes, why did you punish yourself? I couldn't continue to read just your highlights.

though I liked your clever, funny and sarcastic commentary.

Makarios said...

Oh, I wouldn't hold that against you. I think that you're wrong about the most important things in life but for the rest of it, you're probably an ok person.

On the other hand, you come across to me as an angry person and that make me curious. Too bad I'm too lazy to snoop around your place to see if you've written about it somewhere.

Fiery said...

Too lazy to look around.

Well I wouldn't recommend looking around here.

You will only find unassailable arguments that will leave you with your fingers buried firmly in your ears saying "I believe because I WANT to believe, I don't care what you have to say. La! La! La! I can't hear you!"

Isn't laziness a sin against your god?

Oh- and assigning anger to somebody you don't know based on sarcastic comments is incredibly lazy. Assume much?

Makarios said...

And not knowing that sarcasm is intimately connected to anger is extremely lacking in self-awareness. All I said was, I find you interesting and wonder what your story is. Besides your anger, now I'm curious about your defensiveness which is connected to fear.

Fiery said...

Sarcasm is most often used as an intelligent form of humor to satirically and paradoxilly portray the minutinae and uselessness in some aspects of everyday life. Sarcasm, despite its wounding potential, can help reinforce one's lack of worldliness in a playful, yet pragmatic manner. It can be directed at persons, objects, events, ideologies, establishments, or even with references to history. It is often used as proxy to other forms of expression. For example, instead of becoming angry and yelling at someone in a conflict, a person might choose to use sarcasm as an alternative. source

Fiery said...

Do you know what boggles my mind?

Every time a fundy shows up on my blog, things get yucky. Sometimes it generates a flurry of comments, but the fundy always leaves unchanged.

No atheist or open minded individual has ever shown up on my blog and left comments like the swill you've drizzled on this one.

What is the point of accusing me of being angry, defensive and afraid? Is that the "in" you think you can use to talk to me about salvation? That underneath all my supposed dark feelings is a crying desire for Jesus?

Unless you are questioning your faith, Makarios, and have come to have doubts and suspicions that the world isn't part of a fairy tale and would like to hear refreshingly intelligent conversation about reality and the way the universe actually is, rather than the way you pretend it is.... Go away. You aren't worth the effort. No fundy is.

Fiery said...

It amuses me to be the 666th person to look at Makarios profile.


Glanced at his blog. This one caught my eye. "Atheists Run From Jesus". All about the historical authenticity of Jesus' life and times and the "documented" accuracy of the bible. *snerk

It's never worth going to fundy blogs.

Makarios said...

“but the fundy always leaves unchanged.”

What do you mean unchanged? Is that your goal, to change people?

“the swill you've drizzled on this one.”

The swill? Honey, my specialty is the human mind. All I laid out is what you make glaringly obvious. It wasn’t an attack, nor was it an inaccurate statement. Human weakness fascinates me - your struggles are just hanging out there for everyone to see. In fact, your striptease seems so deliberate that I thought you wouldn’t mind talking about them.

“hear refreshingly intelligent conversation”

That’s exactly what I wanted, but your rage and your fear and your inability to confront either of them seems to render you incapable of producing anything approaching intelligent conversation.

If you didn’t like "Atheists Run from Jesus” you should check out “Hug an Atheist.” You’ll love it.

Anyhow, I'm curious. Are you saying that we don’t have a future together? ‘Cause at one point I could have sworn that you were starting to warm up to me a little bit.

Protium said...

ha ha..

Page 18... the padlock's bolt is the words "Condemnation & Judgment" and then a key comes flying in and unlocks the padlock and then the key flys over to the other page as the words "Jesus Christ" appear on the key and then the key becomes the heading of the page and then the words "and the monster will come up playing the flute" appear (I might have made that bit up... I'm a touch excited ;-)

Page 19... If you trust in Christ you can have confidence that "There is now no condemation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1) Jesus Christ took our condemnation and punishment.If you see Christ as worthy of your trust, that promise is for you. He is the One that defeated death once and for all! Who could be more worthy of your trust?

Batman for sure.

According to a whois of the domain this nonsense is owned by Ben Washer of Memphis

Fiery said...

If I cared about your opinion, Makarios, I might try and convince you that I'm not angry, or I might actually get angry that you keep telling me how I am feeling.

You don't know me at all, being too lazy by your own admission to find out, and certainly have no genuine interest in "how I feel". So why you are trying to psychoanalyze me is beyond my comprehension.

As to changing people, no I'm not here to change people. I expect that the people who read my blog agree with me for the most part on pretty much everything I write here. If they don't, I expect that they'll either ignore it or ask questions, listen to the answers, and reply with their own thoughts.

But on the important stuff (i.e. god, the universe, reality, science) we're all on the same page here.

Not so with the fundies that show up. They (you) show up, drop your little turds in the pool, watch us splash them away, and then crawl out again, laughing at having your little fun with the atheists.

We have nothing in important common. You said so yourself, "I think that you're wrong about the most important things in life but for the rest of it, you're probably an ok person."

Except that I'm sarcastic, angry, defensive and afraid.

So why ARE you here?

Makarios said...

I told you. Do you find it so incomprehensible that someone might find you interesting? I'm curious about you home schooling. Do you still do it? How many kids? How's it going. I could never do such a thing. I'd wind up killing my kids. And why do you do it? Philisophical reasons? Physical? That kind of thing.

I really am interested in your anger and specifically as it applies to Me - seemingly for no other reason than what I believe.

If you want me to open my hands to show that I have no weapon, I'll tell you that my rage comes in part from physical and sexual abuse as a child. It's has been such a tremendous struggle to contain my words that I'm curious about your feelings on the issue.

There is nothing sinister about me coming to your place. However, because this seems to be causing you way too much stress, I'll just leave and you can do your own thing.

Fiery said...

No Makarios, I don't find it incomprehensible that people find me interesting. I find it flattering, but not incomprehensible. Strangely my self-worth went up immeasurably when I figured out there wasn't a god and thoughts aren't sinful.

I had no idea you were interested in my homeschooling experience or any other details. Maybe because you haven't asked me any questions, until now. The first comment you left on my blog was "Fiery - Congrats, You sound like everything most people imagine atheists to be." You can surely understand how reading that did not exactly give me a "hugs and puppies" type feel for you. Most of America is Christian. Most Christian's think atheists are the tools of the devil. You are Christian. Therefore..... your first comment, probably not a compliment.

However, it isn't in my nature to assume the worst about people, and I genuinely want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Thus I wrote in a positive spin on your comment.

In your next comment of any meaningful content you accuse me of being wrong about the most important things in life, (I'm not the one who's wrong) and in the very same breath accuse me of being angry and not worth your time to learn more about.

Again, not conducive for me to feel benevolent towards you.

The insults continue with my lacking in self-awareness, defensiveness, more anger and then finally fear.

And now you come with this comment asking all sorts of questions, pleading confusion about my negative reaction to you.

My overwhelming emotion isn't anger, it's sadness. Which you would know if you had bothered to read any of my recent entries. Oh... right the laziness issue.

I dealt with the homeschooling topic on some of my earliest entries... dang it. The laziness issue again.

Traceytreasure said...

Thanks for the warning. I'm not going there! Fundies need to get a life. A real one without imaginary friends!

Big hugs!!

Johnny said...

Malakarios can you point out to me where in christian teaching it says thou shalt be a snide, condescending, judgemental arsehole?

So far I have the score at:
Fiery- 20
Malakarios- nil

Protium said...

Phew... For a minute there I thought Johnny was going to call him a snide cunt.

Anonymous said...

Did I lose something, or has someone been messing with my brownies?