Saturday, November 24, 2007

Moral Atheists are morally superior to moral christians.

Moral atheists- rational people who live moral lives without the threat of eternal punishment (hell) or the promise of eternal reward (heaven) from a supernatural being.

Superior- to be of greater value or excellence, extraordinary.

Christians- people who believe in the born of a virgin, risen from the dead, son of God called Jesus. They believe his followers will go to heaven and everyone else will suffer eternal torment with Satan and his minions in the hell fires God himself has prepared for them.

In hopes of eternal reward, the Christian avoids specific immoral acts.

Sometimes the choice is between refusing to follow god’s command and impregnating your own flesh and blood.

In fear of eternal damnation, the Christian chooses to act in a moral fashion.

Sometimes the choice is between allowing embryos to continue to be aborted or murderingthe doctor responsible for destroying those innocent “lives”.

Some countries have outlawed abortion for any and every reason, including the saving of the mother’s life. In this case, it is morally acceptable for the poor unfortunate child who is developing the mother’s fallopian tube to spend a few more minutes alive rather than be removed from the mother’s body so the mother herself may live.

And what of the moral atheist? The moral atheist behaves in a moral manner because it is the right thing to do. Because it is good for him, the people he cares about, and the society he is a member of to act in a moral fashion.

So who holds the moral high ground? The one who wishes to avoid an eternal spanking? Or the one who wants to do the right thing because it betters his own life right here, right now.


Vamp DiVerL said...

How much ya wanna bet Christians think the term "Moral Atheist" is an oxy moron, right? I just don't understand it...why can't xtians understand we atheist's just want to live our lives with the "Golden Rule" that has been handed down for a millineum in other ways dating back to 1640 BCE. It's simply the ethic of reciprocity.

Fiery said...

Hello Vamp DiVerL and a warm welcome to my blog! Another new face YAY!!!! I've seen you around the other blogs I frequent, I'm glad you popped in to give mine a look!

I find it repugnant when people say, "Well! Without God I would cheat on my taxes" or "kill my next door neighbor" or "sleep with my secretary".

And I always want to say, "It takes the threat of hellfire to keep you behaving yourself???" Nothing like doing it for the right reasons.

T&A said...

Great post! I'll be back later to comment further. Have a great day everyone!

Richard said...

What's so bad about an "eternal spanking"?

Not a few Xtian guys pay to kneel in front of women —who wear weird leather costumes with thongs, chains & buckles, perhaps a mask but with their sweating titty-bits exposed and, Oh yes! (panting), more leather thongs— who spank their bare bums raw with a big rubber penis, while a Poodle runs in circles barking.

"An eternal spanking? That'd, be a fuckin' good time, y'all!! But them gays, now that ain't sex. They're just a bunch of pree-verts."

Fiery said...

All right that tears it. Alert Blogger, someone's hijacked Richard's account and is posting as him. Good grief he's said "shit faced" with the "i" intact a few hours ago and now talking about fundy S&M sites in detail that is .... um .... startling! *snerk* You'll notice he wasn't kind enough to share the link though. *pouts*

Richard.... if that's really you.... what have we done to you? Where is the staid, stodgy, biology prof?


evolveintobirds said...

Generally I agree with your premise that moral atheists are morally superior to moral christians but I think the rest of the post is an over-simplification which is what we're all tired of the christians doing to us.

Most of the christians I know, would say that they are *not* motivated by the threat of hellfire. They would protest that a "real" christian (it's fun going round in that circle with Calvinists) has been regenerated by the holy spirit. They, therefor, will show the fruits of this if they are in fellowship with god. For the E. Orthodox (which is where I was for the past decade), that meant in good standing i.e. regularly confessing and partaking of communion. The E.O. don't even believe in "hellfire" they only believe in eternal separation.

I think the types that say that their moral restraint comes from their faith are the sort of people that would commit those acts in the first place and find ways to justify all sorts of shit through their religion anyway. jmo.

Fiery said...

I know nothing about eastern orthodox religions. What bible verses do they use to justify the elimination of jesus' quite clear statements about hellfire and brimstone and turn it into eternal seperation from god's presence?

I mentioned two motivations for christian morality, the avoidance of hellfire, which some christians absolutely maintain and the other motivation being a desire to go to heaven. Doing a deed for the reward or to avoid the punishment is not morality, it is purchasing.

I further maintain, that wanting to avoid being eternally seperated from god is still equivalent to being afraid of eternal pain, though it is more of a fear of being left out of the party.

evolveintobirds said...

The thing about the E.O. is that the terminology is completely different than protestant terminology. The latter tend to rely on later translations where you get terms like "hellfire" and "brimstone"...the former are relying on the original language which is *much* more nuanced. Plus...with the E.O. they don't tend to proof text things...tradition holds equal weight to scripture. And the E.O. accept the apocrypha. There are even some E.O. that have been influenced by more modern Russian Orthodox writers that actually believe in "tollhouses" (way too complicated to go into here).

I agree that what you say may aptly describe most American protestants...I'm just saying that they only count for about half the world's Christian population and the rest don't really think that way.

Fiery said...

Well there you go, I don't know a thing about orthodox traditions except that they tend to have really outlandishly ornate decorations.

Do they follow the 10 commandments? Do they live by the teachings of jesus- turn the other cheek, render unto Caesar, etc...? Do they look to the bible for moral guidance? Do they believe god commands that they act properly and pray for forgiveness for the sins they commit in spite of themselves?

Or is it just: live as you wish, pray for forgiveness when you screw up and welcome to heaven you who are baptized?????

It may sound flippant, but I am curious! :-)

Summer Squirrel, FCD said...

I've had fundy xian relatives send me bible verses in one email then without missing a keystroke will send a racist joke in the next email. That's hypocritical. They can't seem to understand the concept when it's pointed out the them. That's morally inferior.

evolveintobirds said...

Some E.O. are a bit more uptight than others (Greek vs. Russian for example). I was shocked when I first converted by the high number of Democrats.

They believe in the 10 commandments and all that...they just aren't nearly as literalistic as protestants. I don't honestly know *any* E.O. that believe that Genesis is literal. They don't usually have "bible studies" and the "sermons" don't normally consist on expounding on how the scriptures apply to every day life. But the "saints" are very important and looked to as examples of how to live a life pleasing to god. My favorites were the "fool for christ"s. They did stuff like roast meat on the steps of churches on fast days to remind people that judging others in a terrible sin. They are generally pretty big believers in worrying about the plank in your own eye thing.

*BUT* they also often believe that you must be Orthodox to be saved. It is popular lately, here in America though, for E.O. clergy to say that the "fullness of revelation" is found within the church..."we know where the church *is* but we cannot say where it *is not*".

Fiery said...

Thank you for the inside scoop! That stuff is totally beyond my realm of experience.

Xavier Onassis said...

fiery - I've always felt that christians who think that without the moral framework of christianity Chaos would ensue are just ticking timebombs bulging at the seams of their own repression.

I think they are fighting a daily battle with themselves. They WANT to have promiscuous sex with multiple partners! They WANT to get kinky and freaky!

Maybe they're gay? Maybe they're transgender? Maybe they're into pee, or scat, or feet, or BDSM.

In their twisted, repressed minds, the only thing that keeps them from dumping their wife and kids and living a life of debauchery and abandon is the belief that they will be Held Accountable before the Throne of Almighty God.

As opposed to those of us who seek partners who share our particular proclivities and stay with each other because we have made a commitment to a human being we love and want to spend our lives with.

Fiery said...

Precisely XO!!! exactly exactlty EXACTLY!!!!!!

Finding a matching partner is a beautiful thing and hardly needs god to keep the relationship together. Keep god and the government out of my love life, thank YOU!