Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Fiery's a baaaaaad girl

First off, a warm welcome to my newest lurker! Don't be shy, please say "hi!" :-) We're real friendly here! This post has a few references to previous posts, in order to bring you up to speed, I've linked the relevant bits in the story. ;-)

I drove by the fundies at the women's clinic... again *sigh* When is the 40 days going to be over?

I'm sorry Richard, I had no restraint today. But ohhhh did I laugh my guts sore. I think at one point I was literally bouncing up and down in the car at a traffic light, I'm sily that way.

I had driven by the clinic a bit earlier today and gave them the one fingered salute of universal disdain when I saw they were still standing at the clinic murmuring.

Not too long later, I had the oppportunity to drive by again, and I was really excited! A second shot at the fundies. What to do? What to do? Hmmmmmmm..... I didn't want to be boring and repeat myself, so I rolled down the window, trying to catch one of the old heifer's eyes. I swear all I was going to say was that they were being particularly "exasperating, annoying and inconvenient" in as few words as possible. Honestly!

Instead what came out was, "Go home ya fucking fundies!" yelled in my best revved up atheist voice, in addition to the appropriate finger gesture that left little to the imagination, hopefully.

Being bitterly disappointed that I had not communicated the true "exasperating, annoying and inconvenient" nature of the fundies to them, I turned and yelled the abbreviation back at them, really using the diaphragm on that one.

Did you know that when you yell that particular abbreviation at a stop light with three to six story buildings on all 4 corners it creates the most delicious echo? My opinion positively reverberated through the streets. Fargo resounded with my contempt, if only for a moment.

Come on StarHawk, let's get together and go razz the fundies!


Summer Squirrel, FCD said...

That is so cool! I wish I could've been there with you.

I so love being baaaaaad!

Fiery said...

It would have been awesome to have you there!!!!! The more the merrier. Be nice to show those fundies that they are not universally approved of.

Poodles said...

You are smarter than I am. You yell from a car, I am the type of person that would park, get out and make some off handed comment about their needing to get laid right in front of them. Then it could lead somehow to poodles getting dragged off in hand cuffs.

Fiery said...

I would love to confront them directly. I'll just need to grow a pair before I do it on my own.

I'd love to go up and ask, "What do you think the penalty for having an abortion should be?"

"Is it every single abortion that should be illegal? Rape? Terminal fetus? Terminal to mother?"

"Why is the potential life and soul of the unborn more important to you than the mother's life?"

"Does she 'deserve' to go through pregnancy, childbirth, and raising a child because she had sex one too many times?"

Poodles said...

If you do this, you should video it and post it. That would be fun...

Fiery said...

That would be awesome! It could be done reporter style, asking them questions with a camcorder seeing if they will answer or just murmur murmur.

I don't have a camcorder. If only I knew somebody who does. Somebody who doesn't live across an entire OCEAN!!!!

So----- Starhawk, got a camcorder? Wanna play reporter?

Poor Starhawk is just getting off the Halloween shift, second busiest night of the whole year in his line of work. Won't hear from him for awhile unless he is too buzzed to sleep.

Poodles said...

I have a camcorder, but I still live several different fundamental religious state crossings instead of an ocean...sorry.

King Aardvark said...

Wow, I see you're having a little fun with this, no? ;-)

One has to wonder why these people don't seem to have anything better to do. Jobs? Families to look after? Maybe they just enjoy standind around annoying people.

Reg Golb said...

Pretty sad fiery. I would have put this activity below you. Maybe something Richard would do. HAHA

But seriously, you claim to be a person of great reason. I would grant you that, but yelling from a car seems to be a bit wimpy. Don't you believe in your argument enough to truly confront them?

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

Hey if it feels right... why not?
I wish I could have been there with you!

Reg Golb said...

Atheistink has just totally refuted Richards claim that atheism is not a moral belief system.

Fiery said...

Holy shit!! I didn't get the memo that T&A was speaking for all atheists. Why is Glob on the list and not me??????

And I bet T&A meant that for every aspect of his life too, a hedonist and damn the consequences. NOT!!!

Context Glob, it's all about context.

Protium said...

Camcorder... I'm on my way Fiery.
Be there around this time next year. Perhaps you could ask the fundies to hang around till then as you want to do a doco on them. Does it get cold there in winter?
Bwa ha ha.

Fiery said...

I'll hold ya to that Protium, you and your dear wife are welcome to stay at my place anytime. Though advance warning is a good thing. A year is about the right amount of time. ;-)

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Actually Reg

It was the safe thing to do. Always good to have a something solid between you mentally unbalanced people.

And lets not acuse someone of cowardice when someone else doesn't have a viewable profile.

Will it change anything, maybe, maybe not, might give others the courage to do the same thing and shame these people into movin on, might change the mind of those actually picketting.

Both Fiery and those deluded idiots are exercising their rights.

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

Well fuck me while I take my foot out of my mouth(sorry richard)

Reg does have a viewable profile and a blog with that other twat telmeimwrong.

Ah well I bow before the man with the big brass balls, a braver man than I.

Protium said...

ha ha.. The two dorks are co authors :)

and a dig at T&A in their first post...

Fiery said...

Wow, you guys actually went to their blog? *snerk*

Fiery said...


BWAHAHAHAAHAH!! Sorry, just imagining you getting fucked while removing your foot from your mouth.

I would have thought only a fairly bendy guy would be capable of that.

I'm not really going to post that comment am I?

Yep. it's been a right shit of a day so fuck it. It's going up.

Protium- "The two dorks are co-authors" HAHAHAH!!!!! nice one big brother.

Reg Golb said...

I probably shouldn't say this, but I love this blog. I get more laughs here than an old Seinfeld episode.

I was totally joking about the Richard comment. Atheistink can barely comment for himself. It was just too good to pass up.

Also, I didn't say you were a coward, just wimpy.

Fiery said...

You love this blog for the same reasons that we all do.

Could you do me a favor? Could you tell Mountain King not to sermonize? The long tedious quoting from the bible and then expanding on the notion is really, really...really..... boring. I just can't bring myself to read it. If I wanted to participate in that type of discussion I'd join a bible study or go to church on Sunday.

What?.... don't all you fundies know each other? Hmmmmm could have sworn you knew him. You sure? Not even from one of those divvy up the atheist blogs and which fundy goes where meetings? Weird. I am a firm believer in the fundy conspiracy. Ah well. If you ever DO meet him, pass the word on mkay? thanx.

Fiery said...

Oh, and it was wimpy to ride by shouting invectives from the car window. Unfortuantely my time in town is quite delineated and I don't have time to make a fundy pit stop.

I really should make the time though. If only big brother was here with his camcorder, I'd love to capture the moment on film. Still haven't heard from StarHawk. Surely one of the people he knows has one we could borrow.

Johnny said...

Very interesting that there was no activity from glob or the jerk on the mountain for a couple of days and then they post within an hour of each other! The later post looks like it might have just taken an hour to type too.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Oh shit that is the worst blog ever ahahahahahahahah my guts hurt from laughing. How ignorant of you two fucksticks
Hillary, in a recent debate, said the giving illegal immigrant a drivers license "made sense"

Two minutes later Chris Dodd said "you said it made sense".

The Hillaryous reply . . . . . "I never said that".

Increadibly thourough insight there glob hahahah all you've done is show what a dick Hillary Clinton is!!! You tools just draw a line down the middle and say this side is liberal and this side is conservative!! No wonder your frustrated both of you and the pretender on the mountain... you have no fucking idea about reality!!! So you come up with this fucking tripe
What does the liberal think?
I can tell you in a nutshell.

"I am smarter than you. I will do whatever I can to gain control over all of your rights. Then the world will be better off."
Anybody here consider themselves to be "liberal" here? I know tweedle dum and tweedle dummer here would label me that and are now telling me I want to take control of everyones rights because I am smarter!?!? Just a couple of good 'ole ignorant southern christians. You pricks just dont listen do you? There is a massive breadth of opinions and political stances amongst the people here and to label people like you do is plain nonsense!! I will say it one more time Atheism is NOT a world view it IS SIMPLY THE NON BELIEF IN GOD!! The only appropriate label here is that we are atheists and you are theists full stop. You just won't learn will you? you sound like this...stop persecuting us stop persecuting us you want to persecute us. You glob are the ones with power in your country not the atheists who you seem to think have to be liberal!! Atheists are a small powerless minority who often have to hide it from family and friends glob. How many christians are in that boat?

Fiery said...

*screams of agony*


*gasping for air*

Johnny... I can't believe ... you went to visit someone else's pool..., found shit floating in it, and drug the shit back over here!!!!!

NOW I've got second hand shit floating in my pool. Bad Johnny! No bisquit for you! BWAAHAHHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!


....Oh... ok ....OKAY!!! You don't have to look at me with those puppy dog eyes. *chuckles* Your bits are very nice!!!!! So... it's ok. Just don't do it tooooooo often.

BWAHAHAHAAHAH!!!!! Can you ever do it too often?

Reg Golb said...

I was really curious about this mountain king comment. I have been really busy writing my thesis and haven't read all of your posts.

I was very glad to see MK, but alas, it is not I.

I do enough long writings that I don't have the patience to do it here.

Sorry, I am me, and not him or something like that.

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

Barely comment for myself?
No, I normally choose to ignore your continued banality. However in this case I'll make an exception.

"Atheistink has just totally refuted Richard's claim that atheism is not a moral belief system."

How is that Reg? You are so good at taking things out of context aren't you? I said it for that particular instance, not for everything decision in made in life. You think you are so clever don't you? Atheistink? Ha, ha, I get it! Oh that's a real knee slapper... *shakes head* Did your six year old brother come up with that for you? I sure hope you didn't bruise your gray matter too much over that little gem!

I also find it funny how you took the liberty to call into question Fiery's bravery. Yet it took you how long to come up with a blog? (and from what I read in Johnny's comment a pathetic one at that)

You are a pathetic little troll that gets his or her sick little thrills by visiting sites like this, and shitting all over the place. No one here is benefitting from your bullshit. Why don't you just run along and pretend to work on your make believe thesis...

Reg Golb said...

Well let me expound, that means to say more AI.

In all reality my comment was a joke. However, since you feel compelled to comment, allow me to retort.

Richard has been espousing the idea that atheism is not a moral system. Ok, so what is your supposed system? According to Richard it is your reason, your own ability to work through a situation and some to a conclusion of some sort.

So..... when you say if it feels right, then it is coming from within yourself. You are determining the moral value of that situation so your lack of belief in a deity results directly in your moral system.

That is my thesis.

Thank you for commenting and do come again, sorry this is not my blog.

I will leave, as I have indicated to Fiery, if she asks me to. I just think my life would be boring without fiery and poodles and the rest of the gang (i am part of a gang, you guys really love me). Isn't life boring when everyone agrees with you?

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

When will you get it through your thick skull? Atheism is not a system! It is a lack of belief in a deity, nothing more.
Morality is a subjective term. You prove that on a regular basis. You did it recently when you pooh, poohed us for talking about Fiery wearing a pillow under her shirt, and going into the Planned Parenthood office. We all thought it was funny, you on the other hand were offended. Why? Because you think that abortion is morally wrong. So it offended your sensibilities.

Finally if you think you are part of the gang here, you truly are delusional! Anyone other than Reg disagree?

Poodles said...

Reg said: "(i am part of a gang, you guys really love me)."

That's some funny shit!

Ok little boy from Bentonville, time to take your meds.

Reg Golb said...

Next time you should actually try to argue your point, instead of repeating you mantra about lack of belief.

"Morality is a subjective term" you say. OK, exactly what I said, thanks for confirming my statement. You did read my statemnt didn't you. I said "when you say if it feels right, then it is coming from within yourself. You are determining the moral value of that situation " That is what subjectivity is.

Or do you have your own definition of subjectivity like Johnny and tolerance?

Just for a tip, if you want to refute the concept that atheism IS a belief system, you should probably do better that to say that "atheism ISN'T a belief system".

Come on, you can't tell me that you don't spend your night thinking about me. I am definitely part of the gang, I just may be the village idiot. I see you are coming around to me sense of humor.

Richard said...

I leave this thread for a day or so and you all become so extraordinarily vulgar. What are you thinking? How base! My goodness Johnny, there was barely room between the swearing and insults for any English, you rude cunt!

Reg wrote,
Richard has been espousing the idea that atheism is not a moral system. Ok, so what is your supposed system? According to Richard it is your reason, your own ability to work through a situation and some to a conclusion of some sort.

Observe the really stupid contradiction. First he has me espousing that atheism is not a moral system and then asks "what is your moral system". Now it's not clear just who he is referring to with that "your". Is it one person or atheists in general. But we have a good hint... Reg starts talking about what I (Richard) say it is. That interprets as saying he is speaking of atheists in general, and is trying to identify what the atheist morality is.

So Reg, after saying "Ok" to "there is no moral system" in atheism, you promptly ask what it is. Bloody, bloody stupid, Man!

Hey REG, read Johnny's lips: atheism is not a system of thought, it does not have any particular economic or aesthetic views. IT IS NOT A WORLD VIEW... IT IS NOT A PHILOSOPHY!!!!!

However it IS the consequence of certain philosophical elements atheists may hold: Epistemology -the branch of philosophy that studies whether or not and how man can acquire valid knowledge about the World around him, if there is one. That final issue leads to the philosophical area of Metaphysics --what is the nature of Reality and of Man?

Some, but not all, atheists accept that their six senses tell them quite a few valid things about Reality. They HONESTLY notice that they have no other "port" for sensory input, whether natural or supernatural. They also realize that fundies have exactly the same sensory input as anyone else, and have no special 'port' for supernatural input either.

Bottom line for these atheists? Fundies are self-liars, and they gather round promoting the same BS to anyone who will listen so, a) the more of them there are the more secure in their beliefs they feel and b) some get a daily thrill by having power over the souls of others and become priests --the most enduring con of all time.

Of course, some people are atheists just because their friends are... they are Believers in No Deity, and are in that sense their choice is no more intelligent than the religious belief in a Deity.

BUT Reg also wrote of T&A's "if it feels good do it" remark,
You are determining the moral value of that situation so your lack of belief in a deity results directly in your moral system.

Reg has hit on something I have already said on this blog; didn't you read it Reg? Atheism is only against the existence of a Deity, but it is not FOR anything. It does not provide any arguments about how to think, how to view the rest of reality or Man, what is right and wrong, how to choose a course of action in life or in politics or economics or esthetics.

T&A says, "if it feels good do it", and I would abhor that as moral guidance (from the hippy days). But I suspect he does not run his whole life that way. Likely that remark is the end of a number of judgments about the situation that end with, "they aren't worth spit, so in that sense do what ever turns your crank", with the assumed caveat of, "within a certain range of decency".

That I, an atheist, advocate reason in no way means reason is an aspect of Atheism! However, the converse IS true: reason necessarily leads to Atheism. Nonetheless, many people who try to use reason may not reach that conclusion due to errors of their own.

Richard said...

T&A I have to disagree about morality being a subjective term. I'd agree that it can be highly contextual, but when one examines the nature of man there are a lot of moral principles that are completely absolute and inescapable.

Morality is a system of principles by which a man guides his actions. Breathing is a pretty important action, because LIVING is. If you aren't living morality means squat.

So, for starters, every decision should evaluate whether it is good for staying alive or not. The next level is to ask, living how, happily or sadly, in pain or in pleasure, knowing you do things well or poorly etc etc? Each has different contexts and each may vary from one person to another, but for each person the choice is a moral absolute. The wrong choice does them some form of harm, and the right choice does them some form of good --barring events the chooser could not foresee (and such events can be a real P__S-OFF).

Reg Golb said...

Where do I begin?

"what is your moral system"? You can sure be bull headed. I said if atheism is not a moral system,(your claim) then What IS your moral system? Where do you get your moral absolutes? You answered my question (which I had already answered) "From yourself".

So like I have been claiming all along. Atheism is not a moral system, it just forces you to have your own moral system, or the one you develop yourself.

"So Reg, after saying "Ok" to "there is no moral system" in atheism, you promptly ask what it is. Bloody, bloody stupid, Man!"

I am not being stupid, I am asking where do YOU or any on YOU get YOUR moral system? Again you answered "It does not provide any arguments about how to think, how to view the rest of reality or Man, what is right and wrong, how to choose a course of action in life or in politics or economics or esthetics" Which leaves the options you later describe,from YOURSELF or to quote yourself "every decision should evaluate whether it is good for staying alive or not".

So now that we have determined that your moral system is all about you, we can move on.

"T&A I have to disagree about morality being a subjective term"
How convenient for you. Unfortunately subjective and contextual are basically the same word. You are completely making my point (thanks by the way) by saying "The next level is to ask, living how, happily or sadly, in pain or in pleasure, knowing you do things well or poorly etc etc?"

So as I have been saying all along and now Richardo is validating.
Atheism is the belief that there is no God or however you want to phrase it. Therefore you must declare yourself god and do "what feels right". just like atheistink said.

Fiery said...

Reg, this discussion about atheists and their morals has already happened on this blog and you were here for it. In fact you were asked to go away during the middle of it for bad behavior.

open forum 4

pivotol moments

moral compass

beet analogy

10 commandments

Reg, your faith is trying to protect you. It surrounds you in an impenetrable shield. You ask us questions, yet the answers are not getting through it to the rational part of your brain.

For if you were to fully understand what we are trying to tell you, you would no longer be Reg Golb, fundy. You choose the obfuscation of faith every time you pray for guidance, turn to the bible for answers, trust in something that cannot be perceived but only felt.

We cannot help you Reg until you set aside your faith and think for yourself. Spend an hour and indulge your curiosity, demand satisfactory answers, dare to ask, "Why?", really listen for a change.

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

Richard: Perhaps I should have wrote "morality can be subjective." You are absolutely correct that there are absolutes when it comes to such things like murder.

However, it seems troll boy was implying that because I said, "do it if it feels right" that I am somehow incapable of acting in a moral fashion.
When in fact there is nothing that he can do that would be considered moral by any absolute standard, that you or I couldn't! EXCEPT in his opinion those things that we do not see eye to eye on. (abortion, premarital sex, drug use, etc) In which case I could argue that those things are subjective.

Reg Golb said...

"morality can be subjective."
How can it be subjective?

If it is moral for you to yell out the car window and not moral for me, who is right?

Fiery said...

Wait, wait, wait, WAIT!!!!!!!

Did Richard call Johnny "exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient"???

Really Richard I am shocked!!!!!

There are many words I would use to describe Johnny.....*ahem*.... but "exasperating, annoying and inconvenient" really aren't among them.

Although I can see that you are exapserated with his language. It looks like his language has annoyed you. Was it really inconvenient though? I suppose since you had to dig through it to get to the heart of his comment it was indeed inconvenient.

Ok- never mind.

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

""morality can be subjective."
How can it be subjective?"

"If it is moral for you to yell out the car window and not moral for me, who is right?"

subjective |səbˈjektiv|
1 based on or influenced by PERSONAL FEELINGS, TATSE, or OPINIONS : his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgment. Contrasted with objective .

Does that help Reg?

Reg Golb said...

I didn't need the help, that is what I have been saying all along. Your feeling dictate you morals.

Richard said...

Reg wrote,
"I am asking where do YOU or any on YOU get YOUR moral system?"
Then you should have asked that, 'cause what you wrote did not ask that.

After I explained that *atheism* does not provide a moral system, and that morality comes from reasoned judgment, you responded by saying,
"So now that we have determined that your moral system is all about you, we can move on."

Glob, if morality was not about sustaining one's life it's about undermining it... the ultimate consequence of altruism however it comes about (religion, communism, socialism, environmentalism; take your pick). For most religious and collectivist mentalities morality IS altruism. So you dismiss any morality that is not sacrificial:
"your moral system is all about you, we can move on."

The instant instant you say we can move on your mind has slammed shut as surely as any killer decides his victim's life is disposable.

The principle I am speaking about is the survival and happiness of *individuals* not just ME. To be a self, one must act for one's self. Every religious person does it in some degree, and in considerable hypocrisy.

You then say,
"Unfortunately subjective and contextual are basically the same word."
Worry, just plain wrong, and the convenience is yours. Parsing the distinction is quite an important intellectual achievement.

Yes, I am sovereign to my own soul, my own thoughts, my own actions, my own life, and I want to make it good in a rational sense. If you want to say that makes me God, then you are damn straight. However I am God to me and me only. Con't touch me. Don't bash in my skull with your Biblical BS. You fundy bastards want to tell me how AND THEN FORCE ME to seek my life ON YOUR ABSURD TERMS, while I advocate your right to live by your own ideas. Worse, you seek to achieve it democratically through the abuse of a government designed to PROTECT MY RIGHTS *AND YOURS*. Fuck Right Off!

Fiery wrote,
" You ask us questions, yet the answers are not getting through it to the rational part of your brain. "
I have said much the same thing. Your brain is like stuck record.


Richard said...

However, it seems troll boy was implying that because I said, "do it if it feels right" that I am somehow incapable of acting in a moral fashion.


Look at the troll's comment (2 up). He flat out does not think. If he had two sticks to rub together he'd spit on them rather than admit they could make a fire.

"...we do not see eye to eye on. (abortion, premarital sex, drug use, etc) In which case I could argue that those things are subjective.

I think we are on the same page. To restate, I think you are saying, that each person may have a distinct occasion where each of those moral issues could have application that others should not block. The drug use thing too, but it may not be morally correct, even if it is none of OUR personal or legal business to interfere.

What say?

Richard said...

Dammit Fiery THAT WAS NOT ME!

NOWHERE can you quote me calling Johnny, "exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient"???

I am quite hurt that you might think I did. I like Johnny quite a lot, even though he's not my altar boy. (Damn, maybe I SHOULD listen to Reg Glob.)

Actually, I think someone used my comment, slipping in [Oh My God, did I say that?] the suggestion Johnny was something of "a rude cunt", but quite possibly someone else was using my typing fingers. I dare say those fingers have been a few places I could not see... even poodles aren't safe. The cunt remark was meant in the kindest way, really. I love cunts, but I wouldn't want Johnny to think I was being too forward. He might think I was a jocular cunt. (Jeebus, there is another accidental pun in there.)


Fiery said...


I'm dreadfully sorry Richard. I thought we had established in "CURSES!" what cunt really meant.

So... when you were saying Johnny was a rude cunt you meant he was more along the lines of a vaginal fart than "exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient".

Gotcha! Glad we cleared that up.

Poodles said...

Did Richard just use the "F" word? I swear I just saw the "F" word in a Richard comment.

O no he din't *snaps fingers*

*Shit eating grin*.

Tattooed & Atheist (T&A) said...

Richard we are on the same page, make no mistake about that. :)

So Reg, what prevents you from killing someone that pisses you off so bad that you see red? Is it that your experience in the world has taught you that it is immoral to do harm to another? Or is it because God says so in the Ten Commandments?

If so, let me ask you this: Didn't Cain try to hide his misdeed? And why did Cain hide Abel? Was it because he FELT as if he had done something wrong? I don't recall there being any prohibition of murder in the Book of Genesis. How could he have known it was wrong if the Ten Commandments weren't to come around for at least another 40 begats?

Surely men were killing one another long before Moses came around.(that is if you buy into the Pentateuch's time line) And surely someone said, hey you can't do that! That's murder!

Starhawk said...

Well damn, you guys sure are hard to keep up with when my week falls apart.

First off Reg is "part of the gang" he may not be an atheist, but neither am I and atheism has never been a REQUIREMENT for this blog. Fiery has not removed him from the blog and as such he deserves to at least be heard out, not merely told to be quiet and sit in the corner. Atheism happens to be a major focus of this blog.... I enjoy Reg's comments and points of view EVEN if I often disagree with them. I consider Reg a productive member of the community even if he isn't in the majority. Hell ESPECIALLY because he isn't in the majority. A contrasting opinion, right, wrong, or otherwise is healthy to any group. At least be happy he's a "fundie" that is willing to talk it out with us when so many of them are closed-minded to even the concept of speaking to those with differing mindsets.

Also I did speak with the fundies outside the Women's clinic here in Fargo. I sat and talked for about 1 and a half hours with them. In the end I can't argue with their actions. The specific people I spoke to (not speaking for the Pro-life movement as a whole) were cautious and wary of my motives but seemed to only have the desire to get folk talking about abortion issues. Obviously they wish to skew things towards their belief system, but they seemed to be pleased that discourse was happening at all; no matter the outcome. I discovered that, at least those I spoke to last night, were part of no official group. Most of them were people united by the idea that the termination of life at any stage for any reason is wrong.

I disagreed with that point of view for several reasons that have only become apparent to me in the last month. I pointed some of these reasons out to them, specifically how would they enforce their view of things if they could do as they please. Apparently shutting down the RRV Women's clinic is part one of their plan for world domination. (I'm not quoting here, but they sure seemed to light up at the idea of running everything.) After they pray Fargo's clinic out of existence, any woman that has an abortion should be imprisoned for murder... suffering a 7-30 year term.

That's terrible and reprehensible, but they are only practicing their right to protest. Until Fiery saw them out there and commented on it I had not put the thought into this that the issue deserved. In that sense I thank her AND them for making this issue hard to ignore.

Oh and by the way Fargo is the ONLY clinic in ND. People come as far as New Town to get abortions. That's 352 miles away.

After discussing this with you guys and speaking with them, I think that they are perfectly right to do as they are. I just think that their opinion happens to be wrong.

Do they intimidate women from the clinic? Maybe... but honestly those women need to get past fundie bullying and do what's right for them. Rather then razz some people exercising their right to protest peacefully, we should be teaching people their rights and to stand up for their beliefs despite pressure from less forward rational people.

Well there's my rant for the week. Sorry Fiery, no pranks on the fundies for me. Though I will admit I was gentler with them then I would have liked, so if you want to head down their and open up both barrels on them verbally... I'd totally get your back on that one, but my first trip out there I just wanted to get a lay of the land. Who knows in a week or two I may head out there on my own and give you guys an update on more pointed questions. Questions that REALLY put them on the spot.

Fiery said...

Actually StarHawk, the idea was to use a camcorder and interview them. To ask them the pointed questions and to capture the answers on film to share with the blogging community.

Fiery said...

I think it is great that you went down there and talked to them in person. Actually heard what they had to say.

Good for you!

Richard said...

I just checked in and have to say I really liked the comments by T&A and Starhawk (there is NO God!!).

The problem with the abortion protesters is their desire to make it illegal.

A great Letter to the Editor in Canada's National Paper (The National Post) pointed out in really clear terms that the pregnant woman sees the beating heart of a 6 week old fetus as a blessing when she wants the child, but as a nightmare when she doesn't. The latter has to get rid of it as early as possible, because the nightmare only worsens.

For no other reason, abortion should be immediately available, so the unintentionally pregnant can act promptly without weeks or months of anxious deliberation, with every week making the decision harder to face.

Reg Golb said...

Again with the mother, nevermind that as time progresses it becomes impossible to argue that it is a human baby.

Crazyman Bob said...

Of course as time goes on it becomes harder to argue that it is a human baby. It certainly wont be an elephant baby!

The difference is in the potential and the actual.

The potential will of course change and become closer and closer to the actual that it has the potential to become.

But that does not change the fact that at the beginning of the pregnancy it is a potential and a potential only.

You do not build houses out of potential oak trees.

I cannot resist a long quote from Ayn Rand:

"Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a "right to life." A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable … Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. The task of raising a child is a tremendous, lifelong responsibility, which no one should undertake unwittingly or unwillingly. Procreation is not a duty: human beings are not stock-farm animals. For conscientious persons, an unwanted pregnancy is a disaster; to oppose its termination is to advocate sacrifice, not for the sake of anyone's benefit, but for the sake of misery qua misery, for the sake of forbidding happiness and fulfillment to living human beings."

Reg Golb said...


potential is how you defend it, What about your potential to be intelligent.
"Well I don't think we will educate this kid, he only has the potential to be intelligent"

johngalt666 said...

Reg you fool,

Potential means "capable of being but not yet in existence"

You educate the kid BECAUSE he has the potential to be intelligent!

There is nothing wrong with potential. The problem lies in confusing the potential with the actual.

In your example the problem would be assuming the kid is intelligent because he has the potential. Wrong! You educate the kid, bring out the potential, and then the kid is intelligent.

Think first, then type.

Fiery said...

BWAHAHAHAH!!! Think first, then type.