tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post8953774145182692007..comments2023-10-06T05:02:06.935-05:00Comments on Atheist Homeschooler: Fiery's a baaaaaad girlFieryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-47227793547276627392007-11-11T10:12:00.000-06:002007-11-11T10:12:00.000-06:00BWAHAHAHAH!!! Think first, then type.Brilliant!BWAHAHAHAH!!! Think first, then type.<BR/><BR/>Brilliant!Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-25826929400807218922007-11-10T23:48:00.000-06:002007-11-10T23:48:00.000-06:00Reg you fool, Potential means "capable of being bu...Reg you fool, <BR/><BR/>Potential means "capable of being but not yet in existence"<BR/><BR/>You educate the kid BECAUSE he has the potential to be intelligent!<BR/><BR/>There is nothing wrong with potential. The problem lies in confusing the potential with the actual. <BR/><BR/>In your example the problem would be assuming the kid is intelligent because he has the potential. Wrong! You educate the kid, bring out the potential, and then the kid is intelligent.<BR/><BR/>Think first, then type.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573055590548971488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-21486964479672863452007-11-10T16:33:00.000-06:002007-11-10T16:33:00.000-06:00Crazyman,potential is how you defend it, What abo...Crazyman,<BR/><BR/>potential is how you defend it, What about your potential to be intelligent. <BR/>"Well I don't think we will educate this kid, he only has the potential to be intelligent"Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-20454882675089719652007-11-10T01:47:00.000-06:002007-11-10T01:47:00.000-06:00Of course as time goes on it becomes harder to arg...Of course as time goes on it becomes harder to argue that it is a human baby. It certainly wont be an elephant baby!<BR/><BR/>The difference is in the potential and the actual. <BR/><BR/>The potential will of course change and become closer and closer to the actual that it has the potential to become. <BR/><BR/>But that does not change the fact that at the beginning of the pregnancy it is a potential and a potential only. <BR/><BR/>You do not build houses out of potential oak trees. <BR/><BR/>I cannot resist a long quote from Ayn Rand:<BR/><BR/><I>"Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a "right to life." A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable … Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. The task of raising a child is a tremendous, lifelong responsibility, which no one should undertake unwittingly or unwillingly. Procreation is not a duty: human beings are not stock-farm animals. For conscientious persons, an unwanted pregnancy is a disaster; to oppose its termination is to advocate sacrifice, not for the sake of anyone's benefit, but for the sake of misery qua misery, for the sake of forbidding happiness and fulfillment to living human beings."</I>Crazyman Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02394569286199834908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-24525728548572144962007-11-09T16:45:00.000-06:002007-11-09T16:45:00.000-06:00Again with the mother, nevermind that as time prog...Again with the mother, nevermind that as time progresses it becomes impossible to argue that it is a human baby.Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-92019600766279728562007-11-07T20:37:00.000-06:002007-11-07T20:37:00.000-06:00I just checked in and have to say I really liked t...I just checked in and have to say I really liked the comments by T&A and Starhawk (there is NO God!!).<BR/><BR/>The problem with the abortion protesters is their desire to make it <B>illegal</B>.<BR/><BR/>A great Letter to the Editor in Canada's National Paper (The National Post) pointed out in really clear terms that the pregnant woman sees the beating heart of a 6 week old fetus as a blessing when she wants the child, but as a nightmare when she doesn't. The latter has to get rid of it as early as possible, because the nightmare only worsens. <BR/><BR/>For no other reason, abortion should be immediately available, so the unintentionally pregnant can act promptly without weeks or months of anxious deliberation, with every week making the decision <I>harder to face</I>.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-72374685385470623912007-11-05T08:46:00.000-06:002007-11-05T08:46:00.000-06:00I think it is great that you went down there and t...I think it is great that you went down there and talked to them in person. Actually heard what they had to say.<BR/><BR/>Good for you!Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-34930963622231065142007-11-05T08:45:00.000-06:002007-11-05T08:45:00.000-06:00Actually StarHawk, the idea was to use a camcorder...Actually StarHawk, the idea was to use a camcorder and interview them. To ask them the pointed questions and to capture the answers on film to share with the blogging community.Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-16547686243807942922007-11-05T08:27:00.000-06:002007-11-05T08:27:00.000-06:00Well damn, you guys sure are hard to keep up with ...Well damn, you guys sure are hard to keep up with when my week falls apart. <BR/><BR/>First off Reg is "part of the gang" he may not be an atheist, but neither am I and atheism has never been a REQUIREMENT for this blog. Fiery has not removed him from the blog and as such he deserves to at least be heard out, not merely told to be quiet and sit in the corner. Atheism happens to be a major focus of this blog.... I enjoy Reg's comments and points of view EVEN if I often disagree with them. I consider Reg a productive member of the community even if he isn't in the majority. Hell ESPECIALLY because he isn't in the majority. A contrasting opinion, right, wrong, or otherwise is healthy to any group. At least be happy he's a "fundie" that is willing to talk it out with us when so many of them are closed-minded to even the concept of speaking to those with differing mindsets.<BR/><BR/>Also I did speak with the fundies outside the Women's clinic here in Fargo. I sat and talked for about 1 and a half hours with them. In the end I can't argue with their actions. The specific people I spoke to (not speaking for the Pro-life movement as a whole) were cautious and wary of my motives but seemed to only have the desire to get folk talking about abortion issues. Obviously they wish to skew things towards their belief system, but they seemed to be pleased that discourse was happening at all; no matter the outcome. I discovered that, at least those I spoke to last night, were part of no official group. Most of them were people united by the idea that the termination of life at any stage for any reason is wrong.<BR/><BR/>I disagreed with that point of view for several reasons that have only become apparent to me in the last month. I pointed some of these reasons out to them, specifically how would they enforce their view of things if they could do as they please. Apparently shutting down the RRV Women's clinic is part one of their plan for world domination. (I'm not quoting here, but they sure seemed to light up at the idea of running everything.) After they pray Fargo's clinic out of existence, any woman that has an abortion should be imprisoned for murder... suffering a 7-30 year term. <BR/><BR/>That's terrible and reprehensible, but they are only practicing their right to protest. Until Fiery saw them out there and commented on it I had not put the thought into this that the issue deserved. In that sense I thank her AND them for making this issue hard to ignore.<BR/><BR/>Oh and by the way Fargo is the ONLY clinic in ND. People come as far as New Town to get abortions. That's 352 miles away.<BR/><BR/>After discussing this with you guys and speaking with them, I think that they are perfectly right to do as they are. I just think that their opinion happens to be wrong.<BR/><BR/>Do they intimidate women from the clinic? Maybe... but honestly those women need to get past fundie bullying and do what's right for them. Rather then razz some people exercising their right to protest peacefully, we should be teaching people their rights and to stand up for their beliefs despite pressure from less forward rational people.<BR/><BR/>Well there's my rant for the week. Sorry Fiery, no pranks on the fundies for me. Though I will admit I was gentler with them then I would have liked, so if you want to head down their and open up both barrels on them verbally... I'd totally get your back on that one, but my first trip out there I just wanted to get a lay of the land. Who knows in a week or two I may head out there on my own and give you guys an update on more pointed questions. Questions that REALLY put them on the spot.Starhawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644671234509871556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-1215047708852584662007-11-04T17:16:00.000-06:002007-11-04T17:16:00.000-06:00Richard we are on the same page, make no mistake a...Richard we are on the same page, make no mistake about that. :) <BR/><BR/>So Reg, what prevents you from killing someone that pisses you off so bad that you see red? Is it that your experience in the world has taught you that it is immoral to do harm to another? Or is it because God says so in the Ten Commandments? <BR/><BR/> If so, let me ask you this: Didn't Cain try to hide his misdeed? And why did Cain hide Abel? Was it because he FELT as if he had done something wrong? I don't recall there being any prohibition of murder in the Book of Genesis. How could he have known it was wrong if the Ten Commandments weren't to come around for at least another 40 begats? <BR/><BR/>Surely men were killing one another long before Moses came around.(that is if you buy into the Pentateuch's time line) And surely someone said, hey you can't do that! That's murder!SouthLoopScothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09404713567220059930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-54599885009414311322007-11-04T09:13:00.000-06:002007-11-04T09:13:00.000-06:00Did Richard just use the "F" word? I swear I just...Did Richard just use the "F" word? I swear I just saw the "F" word in a Richard comment.<BR/><BR/>O no he din't *snaps fingers*<BR/><BR/>*Shit eating grin*.Poodleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04722193899918659459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-42223682410114001692007-11-03T23:05:00.000-06:002007-11-03T23:05:00.000-06:00BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!I'm dreadfully sorry Richard. I t...BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!<BR/><BR/>I'm dreadfully sorry Richard. I thought we had established in "CURSES!" what cunt really meant.<BR/><BR/>So... when you were saying Johnny was a rude cunt you meant he was more along the lines of a vaginal fart than "exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient".<BR/><BR/>Gotcha! Glad we cleared that up.Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-9871543069546963152007-11-03T22:46:00.000-06:002007-11-03T22:46:00.000-06:00Dammit Fiery THAT WAS NOT ME!NOWHERE can you quote...Dammit Fiery THAT WAS NOT ME!<BR/><BR/>NOWHERE can you quote me calling Johnny, "<I>exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient"???</I><BR/><BR/>I am quite hurt that you might think I did. I like Johnny quite a lot, even though he's not my altar boy. (Damn, maybe I SHOULD listen to Reg Glob.)<BR/><BR/>Actually, I think someone used my comment, slipping in [Oh My God, did I say that?] the suggestion Johnny was something of "a rude cunt", but quite possibly someone else was using my typing fingers. I dare say those fingers have been a few places I could not see... even poodles aren't safe. The cunt remark was meant in the kindest way, really. I love cunts, but I wouldn't want Johnny to think I was being too forward. He might think I was a jocular cunt. (Jeebus, there is another accidental pun in there.)<BR/><BR/>(BLUSH!!!)Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-32168860749608582502007-11-03T22:36:00.000-06:002007-11-03T22:36:00.000-06:00However, it seems troll boy was implying that beca...<I>However, it seems troll boy was implying that because I said, "do it if it feels right" that I am somehow incapable of acting in a moral fashion.</I><BR/><BR/>NO KIDDING T&A. <BR/><BR/>Look at the troll's comment (2 up). He flat out does not think. If he had two sticks to rub together he'd spit on them rather than admit they could make a fire.<BR/><BR/>"<I>...we do not see eye to eye on. (abortion, premarital sex, drug use, etc) In which case I could argue that those things are subjective.</I><BR/><BR/>I think we are on the same page. To restate, I think you are saying, that each person may have a distinct occasion where each of those moral issues could have application that others should not block. The drug use thing too, but it may not be morally correct, even if it is none of OUR personal or legal business to interfere.<BR/><BR/>What say?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-16101327487690137472007-11-03T22:28:00.000-06:002007-11-03T22:28:00.000-06:00Reg wrote, "I am asking where do YOU or any on YOU...Reg wrote, <BR/>"<I>I am asking where do YOU or any on YOU get YOUR moral system?</I>"<BR/>Then you should have asked that, 'cause what you wrote did not ask that.<BR/><BR/>After I explained that *atheism* does not provide a moral system, and that morality comes from reasoned judgment, you responded by saying, <BR/>"<I>So now that we have determined that your moral system is all about you, we can move on.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Glob, if morality was not about sustaining one's life it's about undermining it... the ultimate consequence of altruism however it comes about (religion, communism, socialism, environmentalism; take your pick). For most religious and collectivist mentalities morality IS altruism. So you dismiss any morality that is not sacrificial:<BR/>"<I>your moral system is all about you, we can move on.</I>"<BR/><BR/>The instant instant you say <I>we can move on</I> your mind has slammed shut as surely as any killer decides his victim's life is disposable.<BR/><BR/>The principle I am speaking about is the survival and happiness of *individuals* not just ME. To be a self, one must act for one's self. Every religious person does it in some degree, and in considerable hypocrisy.<BR/><BR/>You then say,<BR/>"<I>Unfortunately subjective and contextual are basically the same word.</I>"<BR/>Worry, just plain wrong, and the convenience is yours. Parsing the distinction is quite an important intellectual achievement.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I am sovereign to my own soul, my own thoughts, my own actions, my own life, and I want to make it good in a rational sense. If you want to say that makes me God, then you are damn straight. However I am God to me and me only. Con't touch me. Don't bash in my skull with your Biblical BS. You fundy bastards want to tell me how AND THEN FORCE ME to seek my life ON YOUR ABSURD TERMS, while I advocate your right to live by your own ideas. Worse, you seek to achieve it democratically through the abuse of a government designed to PROTECT MY RIGHTS *AND YOURS*. <B>Fuck Right Off!</B><BR/><BR/>Fiery wrote,<BR/>"<I> You ask us questions, yet the answers are not getting through it to the rational part of your brain. </I>"<BR/>I have said much the same thing. Your brain is like stuck record.<BR/><BR/>IAintProofReadinThisHe'sWastedNeuronsRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-16878812769921368112007-11-03T17:27:00.000-06:002007-11-03T17:27:00.000-06:00I didn't need the help, that is what I have been s...I didn't need the help, that is what I have been saying all along. Your feeling dictate you morals.Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-11710837374516957742007-11-03T17:10:00.000-06:002007-11-03T17:10:00.000-06:00""morality can be subjective." How can it be subje...""morality can be subjective." <BR/>How can it be subjective?"<BR/><BR/>"If it is moral for you to yell out the car window and not moral for me, who is right?"<BR/><BR/>subjective |səbˈjektiv|<BR/>adjective<BR/>1 based on or influenced by PERSONAL FEELINGS, TATSE, or OPINIONS : his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgment. Contrasted with objective .<BR/><BR/>Does that help Reg?SouthLoopScothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09404713567220059930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-16229962797523769702007-11-03T17:01:00.000-06:002007-11-03T17:01:00.000-06:00Wait, wait, wait, WAIT!!!!!!!Did Richard call John...Wait, wait, wait, WAIT!!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>Did Richard call Johnny "exasperating, annoying, and inconvenient"???<BR/><BR/>Really Richard I am shocked!!!!!<BR/><BR/>There are many words I would use to describe Johnny.....*ahem*.... but "exasperating, annoying and inconvenient" really aren't among them. <BR/><BR/>Although I can see that you are exapserated with his language. It looks like his language has annoyed you. Was it really inconvenient though? I suppose since you had to dig through it to get to the heart of his comment it was indeed inconvenient.<BR/><BR/>Ok- never mind.Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-78135968956138569822007-11-03T14:25:00.000-06:002007-11-03T14:25:00.000-06:00"morality can be subjective." How can it be subjec..."morality can be subjective." <BR/>How can it be subjective?<BR/><BR/>If it is moral for you to yell out the car window and not moral for me, who is right?Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-8695520542697217202007-11-03T14:21:00.000-06:002007-11-03T14:21:00.000-06:00Richard: Perhaps I should have wrote "morality can...Richard: Perhaps I should have wrote "morality can be subjective." You are absolutely correct that there are absolutes when it comes to such things like murder.<BR/><BR/>However, it seems troll boy was implying that because I said, "do it if it feels right" that I am somehow incapable of acting in a moral fashion.<BR/>When in fact there is nothing that he can do that would be considered moral by any absolute standard, that you or I couldn't! EXCEPT in his opinion those things that we do not see eye to eye on. (abortion, premarital sex, drug use, etc) In which case I could argue that those things are subjective.SouthLoopScothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09404713567220059930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-79223973949215491312007-11-03T13:00:00.000-06:002007-11-03T13:00:00.000-06:00Reg, this discussion about atheists and their mora...Reg, this discussion about atheists and their morals has already happened on this blog and you were here for it. In fact you were asked to go away during the middle of it for bad behavior.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://godlessmomathome.blogspot.com/2007/08/open-forum-4.html" REL="nofollow">open forum 4</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://godlessmomathome.blogspot.com/2007/08/pivotol-moment.html" REL="nofollow">pivotol moments</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://godlessmomathome.blogspot.com/2007/08/moral-compass.html" REL="nofollow">moral compass</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://godlessmomathome.blogspot.com/2007/08/beet-analogy.html" REL="nofollow">beet analogy</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://godlessmomathome.blogspot.com/2007/08/10-commandments.html" REL="nofollow">10 commandments</A><BR/><BR/>Reg, your faith is trying to protect you. It surrounds you in an impenetrable shield. You ask us questions, yet the answers are not getting through it to the rational part of your brain. <BR/><BR/>For if you were to fully understand what we are trying to tell you, you would no longer be Reg Golb, fundy. You choose the obfuscation of faith every time you pray for guidance, turn to the bible for answers, trust in something that cannot be perceived but only felt.<BR/><BR/>We cannot help you Reg until you set aside your faith and think for yourself. Spend an hour and indulge your curiosity, demand satisfactory answers, dare to ask, "Why?", really listen for a change.Fieryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681456246185901798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-67804279324344681862007-11-03T11:56:00.000-06:002007-11-03T11:56:00.000-06:00Where do I begin?"what is your moral system"? You...Where do I begin?<BR/><BR/>"what is your moral system"? You can sure be bull headed. I said if atheism is not a moral system,(your claim) then What IS your moral system? Where do you get your moral absolutes? You answered my question (which I had already answered) "From yourself".<BR/><BR/>So like I have been claiming all along. Atheism is not a moral system, it just forces you to have your own moral system, or the one you develop yourself.<BR/><BR/> "So Reg, after saying "Ok" to "there is no moral system" in atheism, you promptly ask what it is. Bloody, bloody stupid, Man!"<BR/><BR/>I am not being stupid, I am asking where do YOU or any on YOU get YOUR moral system? Again you answered "It does not provide any arguments about how to think, how to view the rest of reality or Man, what is right and wrong, how to choose a course of action in life or in politics or economics or esthetics" Which leaves the options you later describe,from YOURSELF or to quote yourself "every decision should evaluate whether it is good for staying alive or not". <BR/><BR/>So now that we have determined that your moral system is all about you, we can move on.<BR/><BR/>"T&A I have to disagree about morality being a subjective term"<BR/>How convenient for you. Unfortunately subjective and contextual are basically the same word. You are completely making my point (thanks by the way) by saying "The next level is to ask, living how, happily or sadly, in pain or in pleasure, knowing you do things well or poorly etc etc?"<BR/><BR/>So as I have been saying all along and now Richardo is validating.<BR/>Atheism is the belief that there is no God or however you want to phrase it. Therefore you must declare yourself god and do "what feels right". just like atheistink said.Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-46188016409786132312007-11-03T11:09:00.000-06:002007-11-03T11:09:00.000-06:00T&A I have to disagree about morality being a subj...T&A I have to disagree about morality being a subjective term. I'd agree that it can be highly contextual, but when one examines the nature of man there are a lot of moral principles that are completely absolute and inescapable. <BR/><BR/>Morality is a system of principles by which a man guides his actions. Breathing is a pretty important action, because LIVING is. If you aren't living morality means squat. <BR/><BR/>So, for starters, every decision should evaluate whether it is good for staying alive or not. The next level is to ask, living how, happily or sadly, in pain or in pleasure, knowing you do things well or poorly etc etc? Each has different contexts and each may vary from one person to another, but for each person the choice is a moral absolute. The wrong choice does them <I>some</I> form of harm, and the right choice does them some form of good --barring events the chooser could not foresee (and such events can be a real P__S-OFF).Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-9886704147554258532007-11-03T11:00:00.000-06:002007-11-03T11:00:00.000-06:00CRIKEY,I leave this thread for a day or so and you...CRIKEY,<BR/>I leave this thread for a day or so and you all become so extraordinarily vulgar. What are you thinking? How base! My goodness Johnny, there was barely room between the swearing and insults for any English, you rude cunt!<BR/><BR/>Reg wrote,<BR/><I>Richard has been espousing the idea that atheism is not a moral system. Ok, so what is your supposed system? According to Richard it is your reason, your own ability to work through a situation and some to a conclusion of some sort.</I><BR/><BR/>Observe the really stupid contradiction. First he has me espousing that atheism is not a moral system and then asks "what is your moral system". Now it's not clear just who he is referring to with that "your". Is it one person or atheists in general. But we have a good hint... Reg starts talking about what I (Richard) say it is. That interprets as saying he is speaking of atheists in general, and is trying to identify what the atheist morality is. <BR/><BR/>So Reg, after saying "Ok" to "there is no moral system" in atheism, you promptly ask what it is. Bloody, bloody stupid, Man!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Hey REG, read Johnny's lips: atheism is not a system of thought, it does not have any particular economic or aesthetic views. IT IS NOT A WORLD VIEW... IT IS NOT A PHILOSOPHY!!!!!<BR/><BR/>However it IS the consequence of certain philosophical elements atheists <I>may</I> hold: Epistemology -the branch of philosophy that studies whether or not and how man can acquire valid knowledge about the World around him, if there is one. That final issue leads to the philosophical area of Metaphysics --what is the nature of Reality and of Man?<BR/><BR/>Some, but not all, atheists accept that their six senses tell them quite a few valid things about Reality. They HONESTLY notice that they have no other "port" for sensory input, whether natural or supernatural. They also realize that fundies have exactly the same sensory input as anyone else, and have no special 'port' for supernatural input either. <BR/><BR/>Bottom line for these atheists? Fundies are self-liars, and they gather round promoting the same BS to anyone who will listen so, a) the more of them there are the more secure in their beliefs they feel and b) some get a daily thrill by having power over the souls of others and become priests --the most enduring con of all time.<BR/><BR/>Of course, some people are atheists just because their friends are... they are Believers in No Deity, and are in that sense their choice is no more intelligent than the religious belief in a Deity.<BR/><BR/>BUT Reg also wrote of T&A's "if it feels good do it" remark,<BR/><I>You are determining the moral value of that situation so your lack of belief in a deity results directly in your moral system.</I><BR/><BR/>Reg has hit on something I have already said on this blog; didn't you read it Reg? Atheism is only against the existence of a Deity, but it is not FOR anything. It does not provide any arguments about how to think, how to view the rest of reality or Man, what is right and wrong, how to choose a course of action in life or in politics or economics or esthetics.<BR/><BR/>T&A says, "if it feels good do it", and I would abhor that as <I>moral</I> guidance (from the hippy days). But I suspect he does not run his whole life that way. Likely that remark is the end of a number of judgments about the situation that end with, "they aren't worth spit, so in that sense do what ever turns your crank", with the assumed caveat of, "within a certain range of decency".<BR/><BR/>That I, an atheist, advocate reason in no way means reason is an aspect of Atheism! However, the converse IS true: reason necessarily leads to Atheism. Nonetheless, many people who try to use reason may not reach that conclusion due to errors of their own.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02479600882274172677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-583239250485118416.post-24504179433705675112007-11-03T08:06:00.000-06:002007-11-03T08:06:00.000-06:00Next time you should actually try to argue your po...Next time you should actually try to argue your point, instead of repeating you mantra about lack of belief.<BR/><BR/>"Morality is a subjective term" you say. OK, exactly what I said, thanks for confirming my statement. You did read my statemnt didn't you. I said "when you say if it feels right, then it is coming from within yourself. You are determining the moral value of that situation " That is what subjectivity is.<BR/><BR/>Or do you have your own definition of subjectivity like Johnny and tolerance? <BR/><BR/>Just for a tip, if you want to refute the concept that atheism IS a belief system, you should probably do better that to say that "atheism ISN'T a belief system". <BR/><BR/>Poodles,<BR/>Come on, you can't tell me that you don't spend your night thinking about me. I am definitely part of the gang, I just may be the village idiot. I see you are coming around to me sense of humor.Reg Golbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05515713754334477722noreply@blogger.com