Wednesday, August 8, 2007

redirect 2

Highly interesting discussion of hate crimes going on back at the 10 commandments post.

Head over, add a comment, enjoy the discussion!


Gramomster said...

just added one... I fear I may offend... but, I gotta be me...

Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. said...

I am staying out this one. The debated has shifted from 10 commandments to hate crimes. So the ship has sailed.

In response to Richard -

Yes Fiery deserves more than flippant one liners, she constructs well thought out posts and takes great care and consideration in answering her commenters.

Sometimes flippant one liners are all people can give (time wise).

I think you were unclear in who you were directing your first comment to, it came across as tactless(whether this was intended or not).

Perhaps you could have just reordered you post and said, "Ladies and gents, Fiery's post deserves a bit more consideration than your one liners

Anywho, not offended, can't read tone in text, just wanted to point out that although you message is correct, how you deliver that message is also important.

Oh and posting here as to not derail the debate.

janice said...

I agree with Sean.

FE's post was very thought provoking and then the comments "sailed off" in a different direction.

Then, gramomster, chimed in with bitter, socialistic wealth-envy remarks.

Methinks she put us back on track towards the original post, specifically the 10th commandment, “thou shall not covet”.

Her remarks are wrought with envy and resentment.

Thanks for getting us back on topic, gramomster!

Gramomster said...

no no no, Janice, not envy at all. I wouldn't want what they have, because I would not like to become what they are.

Angry at injustice, yes. Angry that in the richest country in the world, children and their parents die every day, due to illnesses that are easily curable, if one can afford a doctor visit, and medicine. And no, not all of these are 'poor' people. Many people who work hard and have jobs with insurance put off care due to the cost of co-pays and prescriptions. My former boss was one of those. He worked the same job for 25 years. He had coverage. But his copay was high enough that he put off going in. By the time he did, his cancer was so advanced that he was dead in 72 hours.

People with insurance face bankruptcy every day, over 50% of personal bankruptcies are because of healthcare costs, the majority of these are people with health insurance. It is not the wealth of others I want; it is acknowledgment that we are all human beings. The children of the wealthy are not inherently more valuable than mine, or Fiery's or anybody else's.

Social Darwinism (although the term 'survival of the fittest was actually Spencer) is simply, in my mind, inhumane.

BigTex71 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BigTex71 said...

The USA is not the richest country in the world, BTW. But we all know what you mean. :)

Richard said...

The more legislated America becomes, the more the wealthy become entrenched, and the less chance the poor have of rising on their own.

The Founders understood that, and tried to create a republic that respected individual rights. While it was new, it worked, and that is why the World's poor wanted to come to America.

But European Feudal thinking was developing right from the beginning (specifically with Hamilton). Later, socialism (Marxism) gradually crept into Western academia. They conflated the feudal mercantilism with "capitalism" and encouraged more legislation to correct the so-called "ills" of the Founders, when it was never the Founders fault. Because this confusion is so great Capitalism is an American ideal that tragically few Americans understand.

Increased legislation against the evils of feudal mercantilism creates hurdles startup businesses cannot jump, and creates a situation no different from the very feudal system the Founders wanted to avoid. The wealthy become de facto noblemen! It is not American capitalism that causes this, so please do not blame the original American government, nor capitalism. The early Americans created the honest wealth that made America great, but it is the mercantilists and the Leftists who have created the very problems they blame on capitalism.

The more modern destruction from the Left is every bit as evil as feudal mercantilism. The Leftist idea (essentializing for brevity) is that everyone should have equal outcomes regardless of unequal effort and opportunity ("equal opportunity" is a deliberate masking of what they really want). Therefore wealth should be redistributed. All coerced redistribution of wealth by taxation in any form, is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If Peter is productive, the wealth he loses to Paul produces less with Paul than it would with Peter. Initially the overall situation looks rosy because the Pauls are all better off and the Peters are still well off. But over a short time (15-20 years in the case of socialized medicine), Peter necessarily creates less wealth than he would have, because he lacks the resources that were taken to give Paul. Because Peter produces less Paul will have less too!.

Then every Leftist, secretly resenting those who have and/or can create wealth, complains about some other issue that needs "social justice". New laws attack Peter. The cycle continues... as is happening in Canada, but even more rapidly in Venezuela under Hugo Chavez.

Because every individual is different, there will always be individuals who do not fit the socialist ideal, always. Those who resist will have to be forced by new laws. In the end the Left will always end up using coercion. The resultant opportunity to use government force to create the new ideal attracts thugs like Stalin, Mao, Guevera, and on and on. The historical list is so long no honest mind can miss it, and yet Leftists never ever seem to learn. They cannot relinquish their resentment of the wealthy, and their belief that 'someone' should always pay for the have nots. Many Leftists hold these beliefs so strongly that they are indifferent to murder and torture. So we see Jimmy Carter and Pierre Elliot Trudeau hob nob with Castro, Mao and other socialist mass murderers. It is despicable.